MArcomage

I still think that Undead host should be somehow weakened. Maybe reduce its damage to 30 + 8N and give to it Charge(10)?

It isn't more powerful than Zealot.

Cmon, it costs 35/35 and there are plenty of ways how to discard it, some of them being very cheap.

I'm not convinced it's OP, but I don't think that "easy to discard" is a good reason for why it isn't. When it comes to most targeted discarders (Intrigue, Wind Witch, Ambush, etc.), it's exactly as easy to discard as every other card in the game. When it comes to Mediator, one of the most widely used targeted discarders, this card is one of the top (maybe the top) most painful to discard uncommon.

Easily discarded cards are cards with Charge or Durable, and to a lesser extent, cheap cards.

Samurai, Moon priestess?

35g/35r is not so much when you have Crypt, Crypt sentry, Deathwood necromancer and Vampire countess in your deck.

Mojko wrote:
Samurai, Moon priestess?

That's true, but Samurai has been a lot less popular since the nerf, and Moon priestess has never been very popular. When it comes to ease of discarding, I think this card is firmly in the middle, and far behind cards with Charge and Durable.

Mojko wrote:
Samurai, Moon priestess?

Thug, Desert Traveler, Goblin Intruder, Holy keyword, Elemental Storm, Conscript Army


+ this card is dependent on the number of Undead you have in hand. Plus the player needs to conserve resources to play it, which gives you plenty of time to build up a defence or take them out beforehand.

Crypt Sentry, Deathwood Necromancer, Vampire Countess are again dependent on the number of Undead you have in hand and still they don't let you play this card until 10 rounds at least.

Personally, when I play Undead decks, I have 50/50 chance of winning. Usually the opponent kills me because I don't pressure him a lot, as I need to conserve resources to play this card, and it's a card easily spotted, even in Hidden games. It's the only card you don't play/discard and you are trying to mount up ur stock. It has a high attack output, but it has a high chance of being discarded.

Orc Regiment or Royal Dragoons are much easier cards to play due to the plethora of +Recruits cards you can have. I've seen players win with Orc Regiment in round 10-11. I only managed to do this once with Undead Host, because I was very lucky to have Gift from the Heavens twice in my hand and my opponent didn't have any good cards himself.

Lord wrote:
Thug, Desert Traveler, Goblin Intruder, Holy keyword, Elemental Storm, Conscript Army

Only one of those has any effect that applies especially to Undead Host rather than any other uncommon. The rest are moot.

+ this card is dependent on the number of Undead you have in hand. Plus the player needs to conserve resources to play it, which gives you plenty of time to build up a defence or take them out beforehand.

Crypt Sentry, Deathwood Necromancer, Vampire Countess are again dependent on the number of Undead you have in hand and still they don't let you play this card until 10 rounds at least.

[...]

Orc Regiment or Royal Dragoons are much easier cards to play due to the plethora of +Recruits cards you can have. I've seen players win with Orc Regiment in round 10-11. I only managed to do this once with Undead Host, because I was very lucky to have Gift from the Heavens twice in my hand and my opponent didn't have any good cards himself.

I disagree. Boosting gems/recruits to 35/35 can be done much faster than getting recruits to 60. You can build both simultaneously with powerful stock-boosters like Fair trade, Pixie, Wealth, Crypt Sentry, Vampire Countess, Miracle, Soul Sacrifice, etc. Pumping recruits alone is comparatively slow. You can do it with a lucky Infinite weapon works or Dark forge, or by pumping Mountain sentry in an all-Alliance deck, but it's a lot less dependable.

Zealot: max attack 58, combined cost: 26 resources ---> 58/26 = 2+
Undead Host: max attack 104, combined cost: 70 resources --> 104/70 =~ 1,5

And of course it's easier to reach 11/15 than to reach 35/35. Why doesn't anybody listen to me :P If you're going to nerf Undead Host, then Zealot needs nerfing too.

I think the thing that makes Undead host as difficult, if not moreso, to execute is the fact that you have to build stock while also maintaining a hand of Undead. This means that someone replacing a large section of your hand with Searing fire, Wind, and what-have-you, even if they avoid hitting Undead host itself, is going to render it not powerful enough for the cost. In the mean time, you're unable to maintain defenses unless you always have a Zero-cost or Bricks-only choice to build with while you're trying to hold onto the Undead keyworded cards. Taking this into consideration, I find it a lot easier to play a more expensive card relying on one resource and not requiring a specific hand composition than trying to set up an optimal play of this card. This is from someone who has an Undead deck and an Unliving deck with Orc regiment for comparison.

Edit: My mistake, that deck doesn't have Orc Regiment. It has Dragon squadron, though I wanted to reference the Uncommon rather than the Rare for the comparison.

dindon wrote:

Lord wrote:
Thug, Desert Traveler, Goblin Intruder, Holy keyword, Elemental Storm, Conscript Army

Only one of those has any effect that applies especially to Undead Host rather than any other uncommon. The rest are moot.

If you have them in your deck though, you have a great chance of discarding Undead Host, especially if you have Samurai, Mediator, Conscript Army and Elemental Storm. If you don't have them, well then, bad luck.
DPsycho also raised another valid point, discarding other Undead cards can render Undead Host incapable of dealing high damage. At best it can deal 50-60 damage for 70 resources.

dindon wrote:
I disagree. Boosting gems/recruits to 35/35 can be done much faster than getting recruits to 60. You can build both simultaneously with powerful stock-boosters like Fair trade, Pixie, Wealth, Crypt Sentry, Vampire Countess, Miracle, Soul Sacrifice, etc. Pumping recruits alone is comparatively slow. You can do it with a lucky Infinite weapon works or Dark forge, or by pumping Mountain sentry in an all-Alliance deck, but it's a lot less dependable.

However, if you have a lot of cards boosting gems/recruits that means you take out from your deck other Undead cards, which means you have less chances of filling your hand's slots with Undead cards and play Undead Host effectively. I've tried this with Holy + a few gems/recruits boosting cards. Although I usually get the 35/35 quickly there's still 2 things left:
1) I need Undead Host in my hand, whereas other killer cards, such as Orc Regiment can be summoned, sometimes in more ways than one (Orc Regiment: Wishing Lagoon and Dark Horde)
2) I need to have enough Undead cards in hand to finish off my opponent

The other problem is that if you are saving up Gems/Recruits, that means you can't play other Undead cards (so half your deck is useless), which means you can't pressure your opponent. You can only play defensive cards (which will be scarce considering you'll have a lot of Undead cards to fill your hand, and a lot of gems/recruits boosting cards) and +gems/+recruits cards. Which means your opponent will grow more easily and will kill you more easily if you don't play Undead Host fast enough.

Also increasing only one resource, is much easier than doing so with 2 resources. A lot of +gems/+recruits cards are dependent on one another. A few examples:
-> Acolyte costs a lot of recruits
-> Avenger costs a lot of gems
-> Magical Steel costs a lot of gems

or they are dependent on bricks:
-> Foundry
-> Magic Well
-> Preparations
which means your capacity to defend yourself is reduced.

Whereas if I was aiming to play Orc Regiment, I would have all +recruits cards in my deck and would play them regardless of what other resources I had, because they would be useless to me (except bricks)