MArcomage

Free multiplayer on-line fantasy card game

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Fithz Hood on 08:44, 13. Nov, 2009
About tokens i suggest to show only the 3 numbers but not the type (alliance, holy...)
Mojko on 08:47, 13. Nov, 2009
to dindon: this idea was already discussed a while ago and we came to conclusion, that tokens must be visible, since your opponent needs to be informed about them (when they are triggered and when they will be triggered). If we would hide them and you would trigger side-effect, he wouldn't know.

to DPsycho: yeah, I've been wondering about this myself. I think it should be included in the battle reports.
Mojko on 15:27, 13. Nov, 2009
(1) I got an idea when I saw the Unveil card concept. We could add "If revealed" mechanics. This condition would be satisfied, when opponent reveals a card and then you play it.

This feature would however require too see which card your opponent revealed. I think only opponent should see such information, but then this mechanics cannot be used.

(2) Then, we should agree on how should the reveal/hide mechanics work. Should the revealed card be revealed until it is played/discarded or just only for one round?

(3) In the card concept Fog of Battle, is a suggestion to have the ability to hide a card from opponent in a game with open hand. Same question here - should it be hidden until played or discarded or until the end of round?

In both cases it must work systematical, so it must work independently of cards. In other words, if we agree that reveal lasts until played/discarded, we won't support cards that reveal only for one round.

Conclusion (please state your opinions on these matters, try to explain your reasons)
1a. "If revealed" mechanics - yes/no
1b. see which of your cards your opponent revealed - yes/no
2. reveal/hide mechanics in hidden games - duration one round or until played or discarded
3. hide/reveal mechanics in non-hidden games - duration one round or until played or discarded
Progressor on 15:45, 13. Nov, 2009
3 No
There are a bunch of people (me among them) wo don't like the hidden play concept. We like the strategy and planning it involves when opponents cards are visible. Now we can avoid this need-for-planning decreasing concept by not starting hidden games. If there are cards like this in normal play, we can't force our opponents not to pick them.
Mojko on 15:59, 13. Nov, 2009
I respect your opinion, but I think this concept does not decrease the strategy. It just changes it. For example if someone uses Auxilia card and pick one card that doesn't want to be discarded, it is a hint for you that that card may be worth discarding/stealing. Some cards becomes almost useless, but others are much more powerful (like trigger trap for example).

However, I share you opinion on this, since I think these two game modes should be kept separate.
planegray on 16:13, 13. Nov, 2009
1a. "If revealed" mechanics - yes/no
No, good idea but too soon for a new mechanic like this. Maybe later imo

1b. see which of your cards your opponent revealed - yes/no
If yes to 1a, then yes

2. reveal/hide mechanics in hidden games - duration one round or until played or discarded
Until played

3. hide/reveal mechanics in non-hidden games - duration one round or until played or discarded
No, lets keep them separate unless the hidden games gain a lot of popularity then consider merging the two.
Sundancer on 18:18, 13. Nov, 2009
2. If possible I'd like to have both. Weak and cheap cards that reveal the opponents cards for just one round and strong cards that reveal them until they are played

3.

I think this feature should be implemented in the way that certain cards just get a new keyword "hidden" and let's say there are about 20 cards with the hidden keyword your opponent wouldn't know which of the "hidden" cards it is.
Sound fun to me and many card games have cards that are placed face down on the table and are revealed later. We could a a lot of meachanics to this feature like some hidden cards must be revealed before they have an effect as a delay for strong cards, or as allready suggested a card that hides cards that normally dont have the hidden keyword.
I like :p
DPsycho on 19:12, 13. Nov, 2009
It should come as no surprise that I have opinions.

1a. Sure, I don't see why not. It could add another layer of strategy, and such mechanics could be added to existing cards that don't fare well in the Hidden environment. A card like Sphinx isn't desirable in a Hidden game, but if it had an "if revealed" property by which it would grant the player 100% rather than the usual 50% cost of the discarded card, players might be more willing to use it in Hidden matches, even while still selecting an opponent's card blindly. (Maybe "if revealed" and target card is hidden. Also, revealing it yourself might be unfair. But I digress...)

1b. Yes. Being able to look at your hand, see which cards your opponent can see and which ones he cannot, and determining from that what he might see as a threat or be prepared for is a level of strategy that truly appeals to me. Looking at what's been proposed so far, it seems we'll be more likely to have mass reveals or selected reveals anyway. The only case where I'd think it needn't be disclosed is the self-inflicted reveal, but for uniformity, everyone should be able to see what is revealed.

2. The way I see it, if someone reveals a card or an entire hand, he's going to screen-capture it or write it down and keep careful record of the changes made afterward. This being the case, the cards may as well be revealed until used. Of course, playing Renewal would then undo the reveal as it's a discard and redraw, but that's fine. (It'll be visible in the discard pile and likely to be played next anyway.) If people want a temporary reveal, I'd think a card that "shuffles" the opponent's hand would suffice, allowing the player to examine the discard pile to see what cards are in the hand, leaving their actual positions unknown.

3. This is a tough one. If it's one card, ideally it should apply only to the next one drawn so the opponent's never seen it and the player didn't single it out to be hidden, and then the effect may as well remain until the card is removed from hand or renewed. In the case of hiding a card or cards that were already revealed, this is going to encourage people taking screen-caps before logging out or hitting back on their browsers to see what was hidden. The hide-and-shuffle idea I proposed in #2 could be employed here to hide the location of a card the opponent is likely to discard, and in such a case, I don't know whether it would be preferable to have the effect be lasting or ephemeral.
In short, such a mechanic would be useless except in certain situations, and it would encourage tedious record-keeping that might be viewed by some as cheating.
Mojko on 15:50, 15. Nov, 2009
Implemented in https://netvor.sk/trac/arcomage/changeset/704
I have chosen this form:

- we now support cards that can reveal cards in opponent's hand
- when revealed, opponent is not informed about it
- we don't support "If revealed mechanics"
- revealed card is revealed until it is played or discarded by it's owner, or until it is discarded by owner's opponent. The automatic hide mechanism is based on the same design as discard pile, so it doesn't work in one specific case (if you discard a card from opponent's hand which has a newcard flag and the card drawn in it's place is the same card as was discarded)
- we don't support cards that hide cards in a non-hidden game
- I added an option "Reveal" to advanced filter in the deck section to select cards that reveal opponent's hand
jbryant3 on 05:20, 17. Nov, 2009
It would be nice to see if the challenger has selected a random deck in the challenge.
FilipeSilva on 09:19, 27. Jan, 2010
Hi

I think a hidden card icon above or below a card would be a very good help in replay games and in hidden games to know what cards are displayed to the opponent.
Mojko on 09:24, 27. Jan, 2010
Actually, I would prefer to display if the card is revealed and not only in game replays but also in normal games. However the question is how to display it without using too much space?
FilipeSilva on 09:34, 27. Jan, 2010
My idea could also be extend to normal games (and not only hidden games).
My suggestion would be to use a very small icon (above/below) each card (for instance near the discard button and above the opponent cards) or to use a different border color.
Chrone on 11:41, 27. Jan, 2010
I think using different background instead of standard one can indicate revealed card without any space consumed.
Sundancer on 13:44, 27. Jan, 2010
I'd like a bright border around revealed cards in hidden games.
DPsycho on 15:06, 27. Jan, 2010
I agree with the bright border suggestion.
Mojko on 19:08, 9. Feb, 2010
I was trying to implement the display of a revealed card. Revealed cards (in both game and replay sections) are displayed with blue border. Of course this is shown only when hidden card game mode is active.

http://helppage.3dfx.sk/fendek/Revealed.png

Now the question is, if such cards should be displayed also in game section. Should a player see the cards his opponent revealed? Please state your opinions and reasons why we should or shouldn't display it.
Sundancer on 19:44, 9. Feb, 2010
Firstly: people should be able to select the hidden cards border colour on their own since it might be hard to see depending on the choosen background.

Secondly: I think you should not be able to see which cards your opponent revealed because the advantage should go to the opponent only and it's way more exciting this way ^^
Mojko on 20:15, 9. Feb, 2010
The border color can be made skin dependable, but not background-image dependable.
Sundancer on 21:44, 9. Feb, 2010
Then just don't make it depend on anything and let the user choose on his own ;)