MArcomage

andi wrote:
How about transforming Nature into a token. When token reaches 100, next card will be a rare Nature.

Maybe with values about basic gain 1, bonus 2 ;) because in other case, it will be maybe easier than now to get a rare, firstly you don't need uncommon to raise tokens, so you can play lake fairy with full hand of natures and every second turn you get rare...

Lord wrote:

To answer that, I'll refer to your previous post, where you defend Nature cards, like Tornado and nowhere in your post do you mention anything about keyword mechanics.

I defend only Tornado because I really don't think that Tornado in Nature deck is overpowered.
If I wasn't clear enough in my first post - I'm sorry.

Lord wrote:

1. Maybe not, but these uncommons give you the chance to summon rare cards in your deck, and you didn't mention that they also reduce wall, which is a great factor. Ofcourse you'll say this is situational, but none-the-less the situation arises in most cases, so they deal 40 damage for 20 gems and 25 recruits. Also, one of those 2 cards has Far Sight and the other has Undead keywords as well and Necroent also can increase your stock so it's a pretty good uncommon.

Well, I told about situation when opponent has no wall. When he has a wall - yes, ents are good, all three of them.

Lord wrote:

2. Nature is pretty weak in defense? Ok, Barbarians are pretty weak in defense, -tower decks are extremely weak in defense, rush decks are also extremely weak in defense, Mages are weak in defense, Legends are weak in defense and so on. Do you expect +wall or +tower nature cards? Darkwood forest gives you +20 wall, so by definition and comparison, Nature cards by themselves have higher defense than any other deck I mentioned here. If you don't like building decks with defensive cards in them to favour attack power, that's your problem to overcome.

Barbarians have only dedicated attack cards, Nature has some wall-, some resource destruction, some wall+, some attack, some stock gain, i.e., almost all but no focus. Rush decks and tower- decks almost don't need time to spin off, they are starting their pressing from first turn to last, Nature needs time and uncommons to start. Mage/Legend... It needs time to spin this deck, but usually you need 32 gems, Frost unicorn, another Legend and one Mage in hand to start. After that Mage/Legend decks have snowball effect. Free Mages and Sorceresses, free Moonlight unicorns... Nature is similar to Mage/Legend by steamroll effect after spin, but you should spin it first.

Lord wrote:

3. No, I won't link your posts here, for 2 reasons: a) I am bored of searching for the thread which is more than 6 months old and don't remember its title and b) If you don't remember what you wrote, then again I'm sorry. People who do remember can judge what you say, the ones who don't well, they can call me a liar if they want to.

Man. If you mean this thread (and it's the only one about Nature nerf) - be so kind, overcome your boredom, go there and make sure that I didn't post there anything. Not a single word.
The only thing about Nature I posted here before Nature nerf was in Undead host discussion. I compared Undead host with several rares, and Forest dragon was in that list. Or can people remember something else about Nature from me?

Wow, that's a lot of feedback. I'll won't be into balance changes for a while, because I'm working on a new faster database engine right now. However, any balance suggestions are appreciated ;-)

Back on topic:

I propose this change to Corrupted woods:

Wall: +5N
Enemy wall: -5M
Stock: +(N + M)
N = #Nature in hand
M = #Undead in hand

Yes, I like it. It will be at par with Ancient sage. Cheap wall for Nature, cheap ram for Undead.

NG_Beholder wrote:

I defend only Tornado because I really don't think that Tornado in Nature deck is overpowered.
If I wasn't clear enough in my first post - I'm sorry.

Yes, but still, you didn't defend the keyword. All you did was defend the cards.

NG_Beholder wrote:
Well, I told about situation when opponent has no wall. When he has a wall - yes, ents are good, all three of them.

In most cases opponent HAS wall, so they are in most cases good.

NG_Beholder wrote:
Barbarians have only dedicated attack cards, Nature has some wall-, some resource destruction, some wall+, some attack, some stock gain, i.e., almost all but no focus. Rush decks and tower- decks almost don't need time to spin off, they are starting their pressing from first turn to last, Nature needs time and uncommons to start. Mage/Legend... It needs time to spin this deck, but usually you need 32 gems, Frost unicorn, another Legend and one Mage in hand to start. After that Mage/Legend decks have snowball effect. Free Mages and Sorceresses, free Moonlight unicorns... Nature is similar to Mage/Legend by steamroll effect after spin, but you should spin it first.

Barbarian uses only recruits and it's hard to keep the effect going. Rush decks are screwed if the opponent builds a high wall from the begining, -tower decks are screwed against +tower decks. Nature as it is now can start its pressing right from turn 9-10. All you need is a couple restoration cards and a Lake Fairy and a Nature non-common. Actually you don't even need that, just a scepter of summoning can do its work.
Mage/Legend do indeed have the snowballing effect, but the downside is, you can't summon unicorns in your hand like that. You can only do it with Summon Master, and you sacrifice precious Mage tokens to do so. Nature just lets you summon the "good" cards. It's not even about luck, it's just plain strolling in the park. And don't forget that rush decks need a constant stream of resources in order to keep their pressing and they are mostly dependent on common cards. Nature can kill just like that. I toll to take your wall down and raise my resources to 18G/18R to play Undead Cavalry for example, but by that time you play Tornado (30 gems in 10 turns? Piece of cake), followed by Lake Fairy or Conjurer, followed by Corrupted Woods, then I can try as much as I can to destroy your wall and raise mine, but you would have already raised your resources to smth like 40/40/40 again by that time, in which case a Forest Dragon or Apocalyptic Rain can finish me off. Yay, Nature is so weak.

NG_Beholder wrote:
Man. If you mean this thread (and it's the only one about Nature nerf) - be so kind, overcome your boredom, go there and make sure that I didn't post there anything. Not a single word.
The only thing about Nature I posted here before Nature nerf was in Undead host discussion. I compared Undead host with several rares, and Forest dragon was in that list. Or can people remember something else about Nature from me?

Like I said, I'm bored of going through old posts plus I study for exams. When I finish, I might go through it. If that's the case and I'm wrong then, I apologize, I might have confused you with someone else complaining about Nature.

At any rate, I agree with Mojko's nerf and I also agree with someone mentioning making Nature a slow-gaining token counter.

Are you guys all talking about long mode only? I've been playing a lot recently (mostly regular mode), and I can't remember the last time I played against a nature deck...

dindon wrote:
Are you guys all talking about long mode only?

in normal mode it's not so good because there are faster decks...

Coolis wrote:
In my opinion, it should be added 1-2 more crappy rare nature cards just to reduce the chance of getting powerful nature card when keyword triggered.

I think that's the most accurate comment. In the past there used to be Earthquake which caused damage to your own Tower and Wall and which didn't really fit in a Nature deck.

Mojko wrote:
I'm working on a new faster database engine right now

Offtopic, but are you finally going for PostgreSQL?? :))

vault wrote:
in normal mode it's not so good because there are faster decks...

Oh, I wouldn't know about those.


I'm not really on either side here, but if nature is overpowered I'd be interested in seeing some replays that showed that, rather than just theorizing.