MArcomage

Why are rares now only available through standard draw? This completely offsets several of my decks...

[Progressor: Moved here to keep Updates free of discussion. + It's a change that deserves it's own thread.]

It's probably done to nerf Militia and mass hand discards. To easy to get rares that way.

But, treu, this has a significant impact for certain deckbuilds, those that are build for fishing rares, by scrolling through ones' deck.

I have to say, I really don't like this change. Almost all of the balance updates are excellent (and they show that the balance section in the forum is being put to good use), but I don't see why this change is necessary at all. Mass discard cards have always been a big part of the game, and using them cleverly is what makes certain decks so good. Dark Flame decks are probably the primary example - what was one of the most interesting deck types is, between this change and the additional nerf to moonshrine, kind of dead now.

I mean, was anyone saying that Auxilia is overpowered? There are already tons of cheap ways to get a rare. Common summoners like Druid or Ranger and the Nature and Illusion side effect are even easier ways than taking your chances with a mass discard.

Auxilia should not have been affected at all by this. It is not overpowered nor an abused strategy. Also, Chaos Wizard is now basically worthless. What was the point of these changes?

Well this makes my "No commons allowed"-deck useless, which is one of my favorite decks.

Being able to discard your cards to get rares quicker is a great part of the game in my opinion.

Yep, getting less rares can seem a bad thing, but hey - it hurts your opponent as well.

Overall effect is slowing game a bit and boosting dragon, nature and illusion decks.

Mass-discard decks are still capable of drawing uncommons. In my opinion, good uncommon is sometimes more preferable than random rare. I have many games (with mostly beast and towerburn decks) when i finish game without playing rares even if they are drawn.

The card drawing system should work this way a long time ago. This change effects the default behaviour of the system, not allowing multiple attempts to draw a rare card. This can be overridden if the card says otherwise (for example Evolution). I intend to keep this default setting, however we can discuss specific cards and if needed, we can modify them and allow them to also draw rares.

Btw. Dark flame was never intended to allow you to draw multiple rares.

I guess one of my main qualms with this, in addition to the fact that it weakens a bunch of interesting deck-building strategies, is that it's not very transparent or intuitive. How is the average user going to know that when he uses tribute, it's not increasing his chance of getting a rare? It's totally logical to assume, unless the card text says otherwise, that your chance of drawing any given card in a slot is the same whether that slot contained a card that you played, or a card that you discarded, or a card that was discarded by one of your or your opponent's cards.

If cards like auxilia, ice queen, relic hunter, etc. were too powerful (which... I didn't hear anyone saying they were), then I think it would have been better to change each of those cards directly (by increasing their cost, or changing the card effect), rather than making a confusing, non-intuitive change to the game's mechanics.

It's possible to make relic hunter draw no rares but completion ritual?
btw I'm against this change, in my opinion it should be applied only to few cards as militia ('cause it's quick) or Ice queen (because it gives you a positive effect) or tribute (I don't want to give my opponent other undiscardable rares).

I disagree. I'm aware that you are used to the previous system, but that alone is not an argument why should we keep it. I think this system is transparent as well. Currently we have one simple rule: One round = One draw that includes chance for a rare, unless the card effects says otherwise (this includes summoning cards and Evolution for example). One round, one rare draw system was my intention a while ago (first I made impossible to draw rares after quick and swift cards).

On the other hand I agree that some cards should be able to draw rares. I propose to add this feature to these cards: Auxilia, Ice queen, Relic hunter and Wicked Ritual.

I would definately agree on Auxilia, and Relic hunter

Ice queen has it's own awesomeness already next to the discard, so thats more arguable.

If Wicked Ritual get's it then Witcher should to (less dmg, dmg to player also).

As for the main discussion: I think the reversed (previous system, specifying which cards can't draw rare) is more insightful in general (not just cause we're used to it). For someone who's new for example, there is no reason to assume that there are different rules for drawing (through playing, discard, mass discard). Or at least I don't see why you would assume it without background knowledge (eg reading details in the manual).

I think that since this is meant to mimic a card game, I think it should actually mimic a card game. In a real world card game there is no way to control what cards you can draw, except by limiting the number of cards that are included in a deck. So I think that the best way to go about it is either to leave it the way it was, or if you really feel that a change is needed (and I really don't think there is, you mentioned that this will make games last longer, and my games already last ages)then tweak the odds of getting a rare on non-normal draws.

Also this makes Chaos Wizard completely unworthy of a slot in my decks.

When you disallow rare draws, how are you redistributing the remaining 6% chance?

The original percentage distribution is:
65% common
29% uncommon
6% rare

If you keep the ratio between common and uncommon the same, the new distribution should be:

~69.14% common
~30.86% uncommon

Another alternative, which I hope is either currently used or will be used after consideration, is that the remaining 6% be given over entirely to causing an uncommon draw:

65% common
35% uncommon

In this case, cards like Chaos Wizard are still somewhat worthwhile, as they maximize uncommon draws.

Which of these systems are being used for redistributing that 6% chance of a rare draw? Or is it another system entirely?

The first one is in use.

Can I ask something else as well? Can Titan keyword draw Completion Ritual or not?

I've seen it draw it.

Edit: on second thought, I may be thinking of Road to Tartarus. But if that draws completion ritual, shouldn't the keyword alos?

True

I've had it drawn by keyword. My Unliving deck has every Titan card -but- Completion ritual, and it's been drawn as a result, though that was some time ago, so I can't say if anything's changed recently. (My reasoning was that if I have enough Titans on hand to want it, I'd be getting the token effect more often.)

To be honest, I like this new mechanism. It makes cards like Danei (sp?) present and tribute much better. Really, the meat of any deck lies in the uncommons anyway with the rares just there to help (a lot) if you happen to get them. So t-up from me!