MArcomage

Elementalist is a fairly decent card to counter people who are using an unliving deck but i feel like it stands out quite a bit from most of the other mage cards being fairly straightforward damage cards. Now it also happens to have the Mage keyword in it and that is something i dont like as in every once in a while when you play a card that makes next drawn to be a mage it shows upp. This in 99% of the cases results in the card being useless as i summon a lots of mages in some decks but its very rarely to counter unliving.

My opinion is to remove the Mage keyword from it.

I, however, like the Mage keyword because I play it in my Mage deck. It's useful in certain circumstances and if not, it gets sacrificed to Ice queen.

I like it with the Mage keyword. It makes it a more valuable card and worth having on hand, even if the conditions of the match never call for it to be played.

I also like it with the Mage keyword. That way, it's a tool that might show up (potentially quite usefully) when summoned. It's a case of high reward versus low risk... after all, if you're summoning Mages, you're probably more worried about having 'another Mage' on hand then you are about getting any specific effect... after all, for all the chances of various blue attack cards, there's also stuff like Conjurer and Master of the Past.

If this is some kind of an Inquisition designed to remove all the inoffensive cards from the Mage keyword, you'd need to get rid of both of them (or add a questionably useful attack function to both), but otherwise, there's no basis to the argument.

I'm not a big fan of cards like this that are really useful against one particular deck type and almost totally useless against all others. I think this would be a better card if the condition was changed from targeting unliving cards to targeting cards with bricks only cost.

It would be more widely useful, but would also carry more risk (since your own hand is likely to have brick cards). The numbers might need to be tweaked.

Elementalist is a VERY situational card its only good if your opponent uses straightforward Unliving deck so you dont get it in your deck ever... unless it had some kind of other effect if there are no Unliving cards

I actually thought this card was best used in an Unliving deck. A swift card that can cycle cards in your hand is fairly nice. I wish it were moved further in that direction by cutting out the brick/quarry loss. As people have stated, it's not that fun to have a card that hard counters a specific archetype of deck.

Hm. You have proposed a very sensible approach.
Then. Perhaps one should suggest a change:

Elementalist
Uncommon. Mage. Swift. Banish.

Players discard up to 6 Unliving cards
Players gain 5 bricks for each card they discarded above 4

Written as such, there is a benefit to exhaust your hand's cards practical for the situation before you played Elementalist for the brick gain. A resource gain makes more sense, anyway.

No. Unliving decks are common enough, and the fact that it doesn't take a turn and give production is very useful for Mage decks (high Magic, which means no resource loss for you but peace of mind, like Duelist). A change like what was suggested would mean the opposite of what it does now, and would potentially break decks. In that case you're better off making a brand new card for that.

Are they, now?o.o I'm sure there ARE many unliving decks, for certain. How many of them are active? I haven't met a single Unliving heavy deck in the last four months>.> Unless you count Titan decks as Unliving, in the context of Elementalist out of everything.

As for the need to change the role of Elementalist in decks, I have made a very similar argument in another thread in regard +Lowest Facility cards... I don't believe the same applies here.

Elementalist is a single card, played in every 40th deck. Compared to the time Murderer was changed to a Horde card from Brigand, the change in the game's balance would be miniscule(I should also point out the Murderer change in the regard was miniscule already).

Brigand decks are famous to be starved for Recruits, and, while I'm sure other decks used Murderer, since the card effect remained great for people who can afford them, a good couple of people from every 22th deck had to switch to another one. I did, in fact, lost a game after the change I didn't notice was made, and Murderer didn't trigger Robbery, followed by discards of the aforementioned and related wasteful actions. What's the difference? Cards should be changed at times.

Elementalist costs you a QUARRY or MORE to recycle an Unliving heavy hand for the 11 gems you pay. You can just play Auxilia, for one resource Unliving decks don't even use a lot otherwise, and a far better card effect. There are no other predictable practical uses for Elementalist other than the Keywords. Cards of the same rarity should be at the very least similar in net gain, and Elementalist is not a gain to play, she's a net loss, for the people who maximize their Keyword efficiency since they swim in gems anyway.

There is nothing to defend here. Unliving decks would benefit from the change. Maybe I will even see them again. Any other deck just has them in for the keywords:3

In contrast... A mage deck who plays against an Unliving deck would, in fact, try not to play Elementalist with the change, true. To be frank in completion, Mage decks don't need to be any more powerful than they already are, they thank you very much. Acolyte and Magic Well and Magic Academy and Meditation and Red Mage are right up in the top 10, and not just for resource accumulation decks. Mages as a combo have potential to win against any deck. They don't have a hard counter.

You'll also note the top tens in general consists of cards you can play to good effect in a large variety of decks. None of which are Unliving as of the time I write. I haven't checked yet, but I bet the highest scored Unliving card is Stone Archer!...
No, Petrified Minotaur, just one above the former. I can see why.
There are not many Unliving themed decks at present. The cards are just there as filler in other decks now, at large, who play more offensive than defensive with their decks. Even the more offensive ones would rather invest the majority of their bricks in tower and wall to defend themselves than extra attack power. The ones who are played are the cheap cards applicable in multiple decks who run past the radar. Then take Stone gargoyle, highest attack common card in the game, and also a tower sniper, but no one cares, because nobody can afford them. Unliving are discount mercenaries, not a deck theme on their own right. Only Restoration is more outsourced than they are. They should be given a little limelight.


Take away the one card from Mage not in the upper 50%. One who is also there for redundancy rather than the card's theme. I don't believe they will be very sad, and Unliving will be a lot more happy. Or maybe we would kickstart a new generation of Unliving/mage decks! They would be great to see.

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i still think we should just grant a beneficious effect if there are no Unliving cards

Unliving is my most-played deck. And no, it's not a Titan deck.

That said, I usually use it to play hosted games. Too often, people have challenged me with their Mage deck knowing this...

DPsycho wrote:
Unliving is my most-played deck. And no, it's not a Titan deck.

That said, I usually use it to play hosted games. Too often, people have challenged me with their Mage deck knowing this...

Then you understand~ Many thanks for your case in point:3

Unliving and Restoration just need one big ol' hug<3 Maybe not at a Mage's expense, per say, but Elementalist is also a good place to start.

Uh, about every fourth game I play is an Unliving one, either by itself or Titan. In fact, I have a Mage and two Unliving decks, and the Mage deck, while being fun to play, has by far the worst win/loss ratio of them all. So no, you're not convincing me.

Since you yourself have active Unliving decks, for a good number of your games to have Unliving involved is only naturalo.o Why did you tell you have them?

A single personal experience doesn't change the overall trend, in any case. Your personal experience did, in the present case, skew your view the game at large. Look:

Non-Titan Unliving cards listed by rank in most played, at the time of post:14. Petrified minotaur, 15. Stone archer, 71. Golem messenger, 73. Flesh golem, 107. Crystal golem, 112. Spirit of Earth 121. Titan soldier, 125 Stone Atronarch, 128. Stone Gargoyle, 143. Bronze golem, 161. Stone golem, 167. Chaos gargoyle, 211. Mirror golem

Average Position: 111th, with 13 cards

Mage cards listed by rank in most played, at the time of post: 9. Acolyte, 21. Wizard, 27. Conjurer, 32. Fire Guardian 48. Warlock, 55. Chaos Wizard, 72. Elven Sorceress, 74. Librarian, 76. Druid.

Average Position: 46th, with 9 cards

Position of Unliving support cards: 130. Reuse the rubble, 250. Petrify.

Position of Mage support cards: 35. Mage Guild, 114. Wizard’s cottage 198. Devilkin, 235. Fireball, 240. Arcane bolt

Non-titans only since you aim to keep Titans in your hand; the less you have to play them, the better, and thus to include them would be unfair to Unlivings.

To reiterate:
1. After the two outliers practical in other decks, for 56 card ranks, Unliving is in a dead zone. The disparity between quality is huge, and by no means an accident.

2. A shameful 60% of non-Titan Unliving cards are above the 100th place. Compared to the Mage's Zero. There are no below average common Mages. None. There aren't even mediocre ones. They are good all around.

3. Unliving have better potential for variety, but the potential is untapped and Mages are far better in the regard than they are. Mages have less cards with varied card effects and keywords, are thus simple to combine with other keywords to great effect. Unliving have more cards who do more of the same, each of them are thus played less.

4. After everything above, Mages are more popular by 65 ranks.


Just the Common ones were listed, for your sake, since from Uncommon up, Unliving's case is even worse, with no Petrified minotaur or Stone archer equivalent to save them a little face.

Mages are not only more popular than Unliving, they are more popular to an extent visible to the naked eye. Decks are less often Unliving decks than they are not at all with a few slim picks from the good to decent ones. Mage decks are simpler to construct, simpler to play, and have wonderful variety in keywords and effects, and thus better for combinations overall.

The fact is. GreenEmerald. Unless you say the vast majority are happy to lose their games just for the chance to play the more popular mages, you have an ill-constructed Mage deck. Commiserations.
You have two great Unliving decks however! They are almost one of a kind, too:3 Even should you be correct on the matter of quality, Unliving need a little variety and popularity regardless of how good they are. But, while the 65 rank difference average is not proof mages are also better in addition to a fan favourite status, you dance on a sharp Occam's Razor when you claim otherwise.

Zaton, you've argued yourself into a circle. You started off wanting to buff this Mage card and are now saying that Mage decks are already sufficiently strong. Or you're suggesting that Unliving needs a boost, but you're speaking from experience with Mage decks and haven't suggested that you play Unliving yourself. Then you tell people who do that they are, somehow, incorrect for not having experienced what you assume they should have.

On top of that, you're getting people's names wrong when addressing them. Who's GreenEmerald?

If you have a suggestion, make it. If you're just going to write essays trying to invalidate others' experiences, take it someplace else. Aside from your attempt to "win" the discussion, I can't tell any longer what is your actual goal here.

You're more than welcome to create new Unliving support card concepts. I suggest you start there and walk away from this senseless argument.

As an extra note for everyone, I am not locking this topic since it is the one proper place for discussion concerning Elementalist. I will, however, respond to any further off topic discussion by either splitting it off to a new topic or deleting it entirely, depending on its relevance and value.

This card is too specific - Add Mode 2:Bricks + 10