MArcomage

I'm wondering whether Rexella isn't a bit too powerful in terms of damage vs. cost. It can deal 21 damage for only 4 recruits. I understand that you aren't in total control of the number of new cards in the game mitigating its strength ever so slightly, but my concern is with the average situation where both sides only have one new card, for -6 damage. The next likely situation is that Rexella was not herself a new card when played so it would only deal 18 damage (-9 for 3 cards). Due to her cheap cost I can only imagine that it will often be played as soon as you get it.
Besides its high damage output it has great utility as well.
Is there something I'm missing or is this card just too strong for its cost?

Off topic, can anyone tell me how/when/why new cards are implemented? I'm assuming the 'interesting' cards are under review but most of them have been posted many, many years ago. Basically I want to understand the process of design, development and implementation.

The latter question is better for another topic - no one would find the result otherwise.

As for Rexella, you should always consider Rarity. Take Rare zero-to-low costs into comparison. In particular, Samurai Princess and Shogun who are rather similar.

Shogun deals less than half as much damage at starter facilities, but to Tower, and overall affects the castle by at least six hits more.

Another fair comparison is Governour, for whom a guaranteed 20 Attack is only a fraction of the 20 Recruits cost.

In the end, she is in line with other Rares.

Or, rather, the best ones._. Most of them are in line with your complaint.
I suppose I compared them to the wrong basisx3 Your instinct is to tie the cards you create to the best, but the best are the best by accident.

Here, damage adjusted:3 Thank you for your helpful complaint. Do mind, the Dragon discard is more or less a very specific disclosured Samurai princess (or in rare terms essentially free).

No, im completerly with you. Not allone the damage output is too high, but even the discard condition and the summoning are themself already worth around 5 recources on a rare. And when the card isn't completely crushing dragon decks it deals damage worth 9 damage for a rare (Damage to cost reatio for rares with keywords is around 1:2,25 with fluctuation).

Well,the process goes as following: you create the card, one of the moderators or the devs go through the submission and mark the interesting cards as "interesting". Most time around Summer/Easter/Christmas/Halloween, the game is patched and some cards are added. These come only from the devs and can contain some of the interesting concepts. These ones will be flagged as "implmented"

And for next time: You can link the card with a topic if you click on the card in the "concept section" You will see then two buttons, one with "back" and the other with "start discussion". The later creates a thread that is directly liked to the card.

Edit: It really depends on which card you base the asumption. Shoguns and Moon princess abilities are for themself too small to be considered. But As hiher the card scales, the more a cost is required. Balance cards like red dragon on the ratios of the beast rares can have already desastrous impact ont he game

even the discard condition

Ehhhh... Samurai Princess, anyone? I even opened a thread to say she shouldn't be as strong and no one replied. I had assumed everyone was down with her, I was wrong, and a weaker, non-rare-draw forbiding version of her effect would be just as free.

You're free to decide Rexella's discard would be worth her whole current price, but let me see you complain of her precedessor firsto.o

Well, but samurai princess got only this effect. The card does just more and with this it isn't conditional anymore.

samurai priestess only hits a single card most time, but even if this card does only hit a single card, it will hit the enemy for a bunch of damage and alro summons a rare card.

rare cards got a fixed "free" cost. You could compare it with "a 5-cost card effect is free". This is true for samurai princess. It is true for the summoning of elven princess. But above this, any other effect should be taxed properly.
When discard and the summoning effect would be put together, i would ay that 0-2 recruits (depents on how you push the cards, i make them most time more conservative) is enough for this type effect. But then you would need to balance the damage properly. That would be around 5-7 additional recruits.


Edit: Sorry for the doublepost

Edit 2: And Samurai princess is already pushed to the borders.

Lord_Earthfire wrote:
rare cards got a fixed "free" cost. You could compare it with "a 5-cost card effect is free". This is true for samurai princess. It is true for the summoning of elven princess. But above this, any other effect should be taxed properly.
When discard and the summoning effect would be put together, i would ay that 0-2 recruits (depents on how you push the cards, i make them most time more conservative) is enough for this type effect. But then you would need to balance the damage properly. That would be around 5-7 additional recruits.


Edit: Sorry for the doublepost

I am aware of all the above. I would mention Shogun here again. I still do not understand youT-T

On the assumption Shogun is balanced, the 9 wall, 9 tower and 9 tower damage at base facilities is somewhere around base line, maybe at the higher end. Tower damage is worth more than normal attack by a considerable amount, too, since you bypass the enemy's wall, but wall for the same reason and no standard victory condition is also worth less. Let's say they even out.

Therefore, if up to 27 damage worth of card effect is a freebie, Rexella deals two-thirds that for a start, and at BEST, with no method to improve since you always have at least 2 New cards in game - Then we look at 2 recruits out of the 5 free thus far.

Then, The precision Summon costs five recruits, which uses up some of the free, and we look at a 2 cost card.

The discard is 1. Far more conditional than Samurai Princess, therefore worth less, 2. Doesn't forbid Rare draw, and 3. reduces your damage the more you discard. It either doesn't do anything, or reduces the value of the Attack effect above. The end result still comes out 4 to me.

We should ask the devs to remove the refresh = Double post issue sometime in the future

[moderator: recreating thread attached to card concept]

In the future, please use the "start discussion" button on conceptual cards to create threads rather than starting one manually. That way, the "view concept" button will be generated.

(Also, double-posting is a browser refresh issue, not a problem on the site's end.)

DPsycho wrote:

(Also, double-posting is a browser refresh issue, not a problem on the site's end.)

It is?o.o I see! Apologies. Is there a particular method to alleviate the issue?

I have this whole post. Its too big. If posted it would probably take up 3-5 posts... I'm not sure whether thats desirable so... I'm waiting out the response to that. In the mean time I'll summarize my post as follows.

Rexella does too many things compared to the other cards and circumvents the issues those cards have. High initial cost for Governor, dependence on boardstate and/or deckdesign for Shogun (which though it offers a tremendous amount of value for its cost still doesn't do that much in absolute numbers) and chance of failure without being rewarded for playing it for Samurai Princess.

I think the very specific discard should be very cheap. I have no problem with that part specifically.

I still like the design, it just seemed like the numbers are off. Haven't checked the new version yet.

Also, there was an assortment of compliments, gratitude and backstory ^^

I'm curious, and pardon if this has already been answered. Is the damage meant to be reduced by the number of discarded Dragons? That is, given the order of effects, the Dragons are discarded before damage is calculated. Is this designed with the expectation that discarding more Dragons creates more New cards, thus dealing less damage if the discard effect occurs as a balancing method?

I ask because I don't think the system creates those New cards until after all of the card effects have resolved. You could discard five Dragons, but the system will still only see the original two "New" cards (or maybe only one now?) in the game at the moment that damage is calculated, because the cards that replace the discarded Dragons don't come into hand until afterward. So if I understand correctly, the damage will still be high despite causing several redraws. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that, coders...)

This could cause a lot of problems predicting damage, and then bug reports from people expecting it to do one thing and instead do another. It's better to rework the card than to let something with that kind of ambiguity go live.

Zaton wrote:

DPsycho wrote:

(Also, double-posting is a browser refresh issue, not a problem on the site's end.)

It is?o.o I see! Apologies. Is there a particular method to alleviate the issue?

I would suggest not using a browser refresh and instead scrolling up and clicking the thread title to refresh the page.

But aside from avoiding manual refreshing, not really. I use Chrome and never have any problem with automatic refreshing. I can't speak for other browsers or for mobile devices. It's always best to make sure you're running the most up-to-date version, but some devices will probably force arbitrary refreshes regardless.

It actually is possible to add a catch on the site's end to try to prevent accidental double posting, but that would create a timeout where people can't post two legitimate posts within an arbitrary timespan. Personally, I think it's better to just edit any double-posts with a request for deletion and let the admins squash 'em as we spot 'em. ;)

ArcaneAddict wrote:
I have this whole post. Its too big. If posted it would probably take up 3-5 posts... I'm not sure whether thats desirable so... I'm waiting out the response to that. In the mean time I'll summarize my post as follows.

As someone who is a fan of over-analyzing concepts with long reports and links to existing cards for comparison, and also a forum admin, I say go for it! =D Just make sure it stays on topic. And ignore that this entire post of mine has nothing to do with the card concept while you're at it.

DPsycho wrote:
I ask because I don't think the system creates those New cards until after all of the card effects have resolved. You could discard five Dragons, but the system will still only see the original two "New" cards (or maybe only one now?) in the game at the moment that damage is calculated, because the cards that replace the discarded Dragons don't come into hand until afterward. So if I understand correctly, the damage will still be high despite causing several redraws. (Correct me if I'm wrong about that, coders...)

It really depends on how is the card implemented. It can be coded the way you would expect.

I'm curious, and pardon if this has already been answered. Is the damage meant to be reduced by the number of discarded Dragons? That is, given the order of effects, the Dragons are discarded before damage is calculated. Is this designed with the expectation that discarding more Dragons creates more New cards, thus dealing less damage if the discard effect occurs as a balancing method?

Yes, as you say!o.o

As someone who is a fan of over-analyzing concepts with long reports and links to existing cards for comparison, and also a forum admin, I say go for it! =D

Encourage hobbies! Spring, spring!

Rexella does too many things compared to the other cards and circumvents the issues those cards have. High initial cost for Governor, dependence on boardstate and/or deckdesign for Shogun

One hundred percent correct, for one. On the other hand, the card follows the pricing procedure(as described in an above post to Lord EarthFire). In the end, the sum of what you say is 'I've made a good card' o.o

It really depends on how is the card implemented. It can be coded the way you would expect.

<3

Also, there was an assortment of compliments, gratitude and backstory ^^

*melts*

Well, i dont take into account any zero cost card for balancing. I think they are beyond any efficiency, but on the other hand, their effect is so small that it doesn't impact the game for a rare.
In fact, i would never put shogun into any deck that is not either build to increase your facilities or doesn't have the zero-cost synergies. Because 18 wall/Tower and 9 damage aren't worth a rare card that could be something like an archmage or a governer.

On the other hand, i would happily have a card that discard a bunch of cards, deals damage AND summons a rare. While shogun and Moon priestess are on their sides more efficient, they are only very specific and with this are conditional cards. This card does so much that it is effective in any situation, thus need a more proper cost.

The main problem is that this card replaces itself. If you play it, you get another rare card. Thus, you are not wasting a rare-slot for a low-impact card (Which is the only justification for shogun and samurai princess being that effective), since you got a new chance to get a good rare. This makes any comparison to zero-cost cards obsolete.

On the other hand, i would happily have a card that discard a bunch of cards, deals damage AND summons a rare.

You continue to ignore you deal less damage the more you discard, you discard a very specific kind of card, and you don't even forbid your opponent Rare summons. It doesn't do all the above at once. You discard a bunch, OR deal damage, not both. If the opponent had more than four Dragons(Which is not an uncommon occurence against a dragon deck, esp. with Hydra in hand) You deal no damage.

All the above does is give the card variety. Against a dragon deck, Rexella discards. Against everything else, you deal damage. It's not a mode-esque option-fest where the cost of the two SHOULD be in part joined together, let alone two effects which are always active on a card. Most of the time, the discard is just hot air. When it's not, it makes the damage hot air.

The main problem is that this card replaces itself. If you play it, you get another rare card.

...Maybe. I still need to clarify just what you wish to accomplish, so, let's take a look at a close examples. Only three other rare Keyword summons exists(how oddo.o). I won't even touch Stonehenge for now, let's talk of Beast farm.

Beast farm costs 15 resources, spread across two- by pure numbers, also costs as much as a Scepter of Summoning.

But Beast farm also gives 13 +Wall along with the same kind of summons Rexella would do.

Now, uncommons receive less of a discount than rares, I presume? The 13 Wall is not for free.

How much of the card cost is worth the Rare Keyword summon, in your expert opinion?:3 Tis, adjusted to Rares, is what we should add to the cost of the other effects.

Wait, did you change the amount? From the last time i saw it, it dealed 29-3*discarded cards damage... Well, this could be explaining about what we are argueing...
nevermind then, 21-3N (So 15 damage in normal case, less in other) is pushed, but fine, in my mind it dealed 8 damage more.

Well, what i was trying to accomplish was an increase in the recruit cost of around 2-3 recruits to around 7, it was nothing against the concept in general.

Well the card specific sumoning condition is ahrd to evaluate.I take Heimdall for example. the 30 damage goes hand in hand with the 16 recruit cost. Even then, we have 3 keywords and a rare keyword summoning effect which cost around 14 gems.

I believe we have a big pool of cards with different power levels, thus comparison to different cards create completely different values.

Lord_Earthfire wrote:
Wait, did you change the amount? From the last time i saw it, it dealed 29-3*discarded cards damage... Well, this could be explaining about what we are argueing...

Yes, on the recommendation of Arcane Addict:3

nevermind then, 21-3N (So 15 damage in normal case, less in other) is pushed, but fine, in my mind it dealed 8 damage more.

Since you believe the card is pushed to limits, I have no objection to add 1 gem to the card cost, as justifiable fluff.

What I very much wish is to find her unique artwork - I can't for the life of me fight an overweight, crosseyed creol woman in plain medieval clothes in a dramatic pose with a blaster rifle in front of a dragon's corpse, for understandable reasons, but despite how gorgeous the idea is.

I would shell money out to an artist just to see the result:3