MArcomage

He draws 10 common, 6 uncommon and FOUR rares not including the one summoned via Scepter of summoning.
I draw 11 common, 6 uncommon and ZERO rares.

How is that in any way fair? There's no way I could have won that game.

I'm sorry to give the cliché comment, but I can't let this pass; who ever told you every game would be fair? Or even most games?

Hope for the better luck next game.
When u play a lot of games, this unfair shuffles occur in the same frequency for you as your opponent. Maybe you just perceive the bad games happening for you

This game is meant to be fun. There was nothing fun about this game. There is nothing fun about obvious favouritism.

The most unfair games are the ones where you die on turn 10 or before in a long game because the opponent got the right resource cards and one right rare.
The game is intended to be fun, but it says right in the rules that card draws are random. You see this sort of thing in literally every game of chance, and if you wanted to change it, you would need to create some specific and hopefully easy-to-understand mechanic that would in turn create the fairness you're looking for.

I've had many of those too.

I've lost more than twice as much as I've won. I'm not an idiot and I don't have shitty decks. The bad cards I get compared to the cards of my opponents is statistically very unlikely. It's beyond "unlucky".

Who do you usually play against? Have you looked at their win-ratios?

To be fair one of the rare draws was from an Alliance summoning card (Elven woods).
You could try putting some summoning cards in your deck also.

Kenaz wrote:
There is nothing fun about obvious favouritism.

Are you suggesting that the computer system responsible for random number generation is making lovey-dovey eyes at your opponent?

We all get games like that. I've been on both ends of it. Just grit your teeth, commend your opponent on their uncanny luck in chat, and get on with the game. The other complaint we used to get a lot was that the system replaced a played common card with itself twice in a row, which while unlikely in any single event is still a statistical probability over time and enough games. That's the nature of randomness.

It's worth noting that the random draw IS weighted. When you draw a card that is already in your current hand twice, there's a chance that the system performs an invisible redraw. Ironically, this has the effect of reducing feelings of a biased draw system...

DPsycho wrote:
It's worth noting that the random draw IS weighted. When you draw a card that is already in your current hand twice, there's a chance that the system performs an invisible redraw. Ironically, this has the effect of reducing feelings of a biased draw system...

This is exactly the sort of system I was asking Kenaz to think about, but apparently that didn't come through at all. Something which can recognize Huge Luck overwhelmingly to one side and raise the chances on the other side accordingly; which is also the kind of mechanics usually doomed to be confusing and thus not used.

DPsycho is right, there is a system that significantly reduces the probability of drawing cards that are already present in your hand. However, this system doesn't take card rarity into account only card instances. In theory such system could be extended to card rarity as well, thus reducing number of rare card draws when you already have some rare cards in hand.

This solution introduces some problems. The system is no longer transparent, because the fixed card rarity drawing rules would be held at all times. This system would also punish a player who stocks up rares on his hand, because playing rare cards as soon as possible would be the best option. Not surprisingly this would effect game balance as a whole and complete card and keyword revision would be necessary.

There is randomness in this game indeed, however I think I can say that deck construction and deck execution have significant impact on game outcome, which means players have the option to influence this greatly.

Kenaz wrote:
This game is meant to be fun. There was nothing fun about this game. There is nothing fun about obvious favouritism.

I search fun also. Create almost small victory decks. Scores rare is not good.

originally wrote:
I looked at that Elven Woods card mentioned, then filtered the deck listing by Alliance, and there are 28 total alliance cards that can be summoned by it, with five of them being rares. Nearly a 1/5 chance of getting a rare every use of the card! I'd thought it was large, but not that large-- anyway, the next focus is the "every use" part of that. It's a 4/5 chance of not getting a rare from that card if it's used once in a game, but then a 16/25 chance of no rare if it's used twice, and 64/125 when used thrice. So, if Elven Woods gets used three times in a game, expect the real chance of it getting a rare at least once to be about a coinflip.

But it came together nice so I'm putting it here too.

Actually, I've never specifically checked all the common summon cards to see what their rare chances are, so who am I to think Elven Woods is a bigger than average provider of rare cards?

Summon:
aqua; 7/28
aria; 6/25
barbarian; 6/25
brigand; 2/20
burning; 7/27
charge soldier; 2/6
far sight; 11/44
holy; 4/30
mage; 9/25
nature; 10/31 (which is definitely just what it felt like)
restoration; 5/18
soldier; 3/28
unliving; 9/36

...and now that I've checked the non-conditional ones I'm bored. Hope you found it interesting.

Oh, and to cap my thoughts on this thread; it's really hard to get riled up over this sort of thing when you've played roguelikes that were genuinely designed to be unfair and hopelessly hard.

As a former poker player (and I feel that it's somewhat similiar to arcomage), I know you can't look at one particular game, but at many games in the long run. If something is possible to happen (even if it is very, very unlikely or unfair to one of the players), it would happen eventually when u play shit load of games.

Coolis wrote:
...it would happen eventually when u play shit load of games.

I would completely agree. I've been losing and drawn three rare cards in a row to win and I've also been winning and the opponent draws three rare cards in a row so that I lose. You just have to believe in the cards!!! Queue Yugioh music.