MArcomage

There is too many of them. They are doing not so much damage if compare them to Undead or even Beast decks, but they are cheap, they are many, they are using ALL types of resources, they are often benefit the one who played them and last but not least - they are almost uncounterable. There is only two GOOD direct counters - Lookout towers which was seriosly nerfed and Foundations which has a minor effect. Get a little resource buff from the start and play Catapult. Don't have enough recruits? Play Telekinesis. Don't have enough gems? Play Stone Gargoule. Oh, you got enough recruits? Play Catapult and f*ck that 150 enemy wall - he doesn't have any tower+ cards on hand.
Either raise their cost, add some more counters for this cards or decrease their damage. When I have total 80-100 damage for 40 recruits on hand but can't use this because my enemy need 4-7 turns to destroy me - it's not fun.

Agree. Agree. Agree. Agree! Boo direct tower-attack decks! RAWR!

Lol, you lost 2 times and you must create a thread for that? ;) This type of deck was very, really very weakened when quick commons were removed, because now there's not enough effective commons (card like Stone archer are too slow and this deck must be fast). I stopped play this deck after that update...now I made some changes and take it just for fun and yes, if I'm lucky and get a good hand, it's still effective and quick against some decks and if you haven't any defense. But it go for all deck, it's no problem to destroy tower in several turns in undead deck, if you have several good uncommons... And if I don't destroy tower quickly, this deck haven't many chances to late phase of game.
And btw. for example citadel towers were added, it's great defense card... chateau is also good universal building card.

NG_Beholder wrote:
There is only two GOOD direct counters - Lookout towers which was seriosly nerfed and Foundations which has a minor effect.

Citadel Tower is also a hard counter to tower destruction decks. I agree though that the nerfs to lookout tower have been too harsh.

vault, I played more than 30 games with you, Lashana, Aahz and someone else (I believe it was Pyfty) against decks like this. With many decks: Mage/Legend, Undead, Beast, even defensive ones. I won only 5 or 6 parties. And I was REALLY lucky with Ice Queen and Lookout Towers. Am I a bad player that can't build a good deck? My stats say no.
And other decks were weakened too when quick commons were removed, so...
Also, Undead decks have too hard damage because of Undead Host/Eternal Guardian combo and using two resources. Direct tower damage decks use all three to damage. Think about Beast/Frenzy or Barbarian deck with 9 recruits per turn from the start. Do you like it?

well, these decks are a strategy and these decks do have their drawbacks. i.e. if playing against a tower-building deck or a brigand/destruction deck then you are definetely doomed. also if you add a few common +tower cards in your deck, you will find them to be a good defense against -tower deck. I had the same problem, but with the addition of a few +tower cards I managed to increase my chances of winning against those decks.

Also as vault mentioned, the removal of Quick commons weakened a lot -tower decks and rush decks.

NG_Beholder wrote:
Also, Undead decks have too hard damage because of Undead Host/Eternal Guardian combo and using two resources. Direct tower damage decks use all three to damage. Think about Beast/Frenzy or Barbarian deck with 9 recruits per turn from the start. Do you like it?

Also to clarify one more thing. Undead are supposed to deal high amounts of damage but with a high cost of resources. Don't forget that when you use all 3 or 2 out of 3 resources then you are much more vulnerable, because it's easier for the opponent to stall you by just stealing or reducing one of the resources.

Barbarian and Beast/Frenzy decks are also pretty powerful. I use a Barbarian deck and personally I have no problem gathering the recruits. There's so many cheap cards, or cards that use gems and bricks that can raise your recruits fast. In 3 rounds I usually manage to gather about 20 recruits and a level 4 dungeon if I am lucky. I win much faster with Barbarian that with Undead or even with -tower decks.

I also know one more player here (sol) who has a deck based on Soldier, Charge and Beast/Frenzy cards. He usually manages to win matches by round 10-11 using War Elephant or Royal Dragoons.

I have a tower attack deck, and it's been weakened with every one of the past several updates. Most decks have more building cards than before, some of which are more effective when the wall isn't taking damage as is typically the case. Cards that give a boost to your own stock have had their efficacy reduced. One of the two Common Soldiers that hit the opponent's tower had that option removed, meaning you either have to take a Soldier that doesn't fit the strategy or have much less of a chance of using Uncommon cards that build your defenses and hit their tower dependent on your having a Soldier present. The loss of Quick Commons needs no further explanation.

Meanwhile, the same weaknesses the deck has always had are still present. -Tower cards are expensive, so having your stock reduced means several turns of discarding, and it's still unlikely to survive a few turns of standard attack, even if you pepper your deck with defensive cards. Fanatic still eats you alive.

Really, I'm surprised that a thread like this should come about at this time. A year ago, sure, but now? This tactic has you putting all your eggs in one basket, and the exposed weaknesses have only become moreso in the past many months. Reducing the number of -tower cards wouldn't change anything as you already have to mix in other card choices to avoid being a sitting duck.

I wanted to add something, but DPsycho wrote it absolutely precisely.

Lord wrote:
Don't forget that when you use all 3 or 2 out of 3 resources then you are much more vulnerable, because it's easier for the opponent to stall you by just stealing or reducing one of the resources.

But not when deck needs an equal amount of all three resources.

DPsycho wrote:
Cards that give a boost to your own stock have had their efficacy reduced.

Yeah, Supply Units, Waterfall, Magic Sanctuary etc are so weak...

DPsycho wrote:
One of the two Common Soldiers that hit the opponent's tower had that option removed, meaning you either have to take a Soldier that doesn't fit the strategy or have much less of a chance of using Uncommon cards that build your defenses and hit their tower dependent on your having a Soldier present.

It's 7 tower (actually one of the best common cards), 30 wall and 16 tower/-10 enemy tower even if you haven't a Soldier in hand. And Sniper still has -tower.

DPsycho wrote:
The loss of Quick Commons needs no further explanation.

Quick commons were useful in ANY deck because it was a good and cheap way to roll your deck, so almost all decks became weaker when they were removed.

DPsycho wrote:
-Tower cards are expensive, so having your stock reduced means several turns of discarding...

WHOLE stock. Because if someone reduces your gems - you play recruits card. Or recruits/bricks. And you need at least 5-6 stock reduce to make sure that your tower will not be damaged/destroyed next turn.

DPsycho wrote:
...and it's still unlikely to survive a few turns of standard attack, even if you pepper your deck with defensive cards. Fanatic still eats you alive.

Yeah, but you need to destroy enemy tower and wall to defeat him and he's not. Ne needs 1-2 turns to be ready for pressing. And you need to defend because if you attack you'll be dead in 3-4 turns.

well, -tower cards are expensive. you need a large amount of luck in order to have -tower cards that each uses a different resource. Besides, they cost almosy twice the amount of resources per damage compared to normal attack cards.

And like I said before: when the opponent has a few good common +tower cards, and you are playing with a -tower deck then u r screwed, because you can play a major damage -tower card once every 3 rounds, while your opponent can play common (or even uncommon) +tower cards every turn

Lord wrote:
well, -tower cards are expensive. you need a large amount of luck in order to have -tower cards that each uses a different resource. Besides, they cost almosy twice the amount of resources per damage compared to normal attack cards.

But they don't need to pass through the wall, they just ignore it. Beasts with good damage/resources ratio can be totally countered by wall+ AND tower+ cards. Same with Undead (except oneshot Undead host), with Barbarians (killing walls but not so good damage/resources ratio). Not to mention that direct tower damage cards still have better damage/resources ratio than Mages.

Mages are free after a point in the game. Undead are high-costing high-damage cards. Beast deal extra damage and are supported by frenzy. I could find a fault with every single card in game. Each deck, keyword, card has its own weaknesses and strengths. -tower weakness is +tower cards and -stock cards, which are plenty in the game and contained in every deck.

Lord wrote:
And like I said before: when the opponent has a few good common +tower cards, and you are playing with a -tower deck then u r screwed, because you can play a major damage -tower card once every 3 rounds, while your opponent can play common (or even uncommon) +tower cards every turn

Truth. The best combination is Stone gargoyle x Foundations, spent 16 bricks vs. 1 brick for the same effect, I hate it ;)

Lord wrote:
Mages are free after a point in the game. Undead are high-costing high-damage cards. Beast deal extra damage and are supported by frenzy. I could find a fault with every single card in game. Each deck, keyword, card has its own weaknesses and strengths. -tower weakness is +tower cards and -stock cards, which are plenty in the game and contained in every deck.

And ALL of the effective more-than-common +tower cards can be countered by 1 common card called Erosion.
About expensiveness... Ask vault what average cost/turn his deck has.

NG_Beholder wrote:
And ALL of the effective more-than-common +tower cards can be countered by 1 common card called Erosion.

Sure, firstly Tower guards and Seraphim ;) Well, I hope it wasn't meant seriously... Or forbid Erosion! And also merchant, it's so unfair to add resources!
Ok, I end in this discussion, it's irrelevant.

well, i think this is turning quite hostile....

1. I said "EFFECTIVE tower+ cards". Seraphim can add 10 tower for 17 recruits. Or 16 if Far Sight would trigger. It's one Catapult or one Flame Spitter. Tower Guards - same but little more effective because of cost.
And you forgot Magical Palace, King's Elite Guard and Citadel of Myr - they are SO good to counter direct tower damage. It's a shame that they are so rare.
2. Yeah, Nerfchant. Solving of all problems. But you still won't be able to play Lookout Towers if you have 1 brick after enemy Erosion even if you played Merchant.
And you didn't answer about your average cost/turn.

I don't know about vault, at least my -tower deck resource rate is 3.74B/2.6G/4.73R per turn

there are still a lot of good cards that can raise your tower. erosion is not that powerful if you have at least one good brick card (I agree with vault there, merchant is always in every deck I see of every player)

Examples, please. What card can be a good and cheap counter for direct tower damage if not count Lookout Towers and Foundations?