MArcomage

Cleansing, Elemental Storm, and Wildfire Gem(Flare Attack) I feel these are gimmick cards that are stronger than their cost. My problem is that I end up wasting 2-4 of my turns getting rid of the cards forced into my hands which are not from my deck.

Cleansing was fine before the most recent change to it, adding a requirement seems fit ie) requires x number of holy cards is your hand for the effect to work.

Elemental Storm was not a problem until Wind had Quick removed from it.

Wildfire Gem needs adjusted ever since Burning decks have been made much stronger over the past year or two. It was fine back then when Phoenix was basically the only other burning card in the game but now its outdated and overly strong for being a common card.

Since the unfortunate change to quick commons, it's true that Elemental Storm has become better, and so have the other cards you mentioned, because Militia and Halfling Rogue have become less appealing as hand-cleaners. That said, I'm not really convinced that these cards are overpowered. The usage statistics suggest that they're not exactly sweeping the game with popularity (Elemental Storm is 94th among UCs, Cleansing is 31st among commons (and probably dropping since the nerf), and Wildfire Gem is 141st).

I really can't recall the last time someone used Wildfire gem in one of my matches.

Wildfire is only good in a burning deck because it nukes your cards too. Hardly anyone plays a burning deck (I do!).

Elemental storm is an uncommon, which are I think, the most valuable cards in your deck. That alone makes it a tough choice in most decks.

Cleansing needs to be nerfed again as it completely destroys ALL keyword-based decks (more so than Moon shrine ever did). I agree that it should only replace up to 3 based on the #Holy cards in hand.

Let me revise my statement, then. I use a Burning deck, and I can't recall the last time anyone used Wildfire gem in one of my matches. =P

I use Wildfire Gem. It's good in cases you have Phoenix in hand or perhaps when you have Keeper of Secrets, or if your opponent has a good set of Uncommons in his hand. Otherwise, it's not worth the risk of losing your reserve wall-building cards or stock cards u might have in hand. I only play it if I'm about to finish a game on my next move. However, maybe induce a heavier penalty on the user would be in order?

EDIT: I agree though with Elemental Storm. Wind really needs to be Quick again, otherwise it's too damn powerful

I can't stress enough that wildfire is terrible in non-Burning decks... (exception: those that play phoenix feather just to pull phoenix)

planegray wrote:
Cleansing was fine before the most recent change to it, adding a requirement seems fit ie) requires x number of holy cards is your hand for the effect to work.

I think Cleansing is fine as it is now. Don't forget that recent change modified its effect, so it would replace common cards first.

Cleansing was easy to counter before, by not putting undead cards in my decks. I even avoid keyword cards when building decks that are not my focus keyword like alliance. When cleansing is played i am forced into being 2-3 turns behind and losing all +token potential for those turns.

Like Dindon mentioned, with the removal of quick from hand cleaner cards like militia, and halfling rogue it is increasingly difficult to deal with unwanted cards from my hand.


I'm not saying I win or lose games because my opponent used one of these cards. But I get aggravated when i waste turns discarding/using unwanted cards in my hand that are not from my deck. And when this happens more than once a game I do not consider it fun or interesting.

I don't think they need to be changed completely but i think we can come up with more fun and interesting ways to apply them to the game than their current form of intrusively putting crap cards in 2 or more spots of my hand.

planegray wrote:

I'm not saying I win or lose games because my opponent used one of these cards.

but I do: my titan deck it's killed by cleansing.
maybe it's better if cleansing discards non-keyword cards

I agree with Fithz. It would be a good counter to other cards that focus on non-keyword cards for their benefits.

Fithz wrote:

but I do: my titan deck it's killed by cleansing.
maybe it's better if cleansing discards non-keyword cards

Perhaps Cleansing is a bit powerful. However I would like to point out that Titan decks are at risk from almost every mass discard card someone could employ. Be it one of the three we mention here or cards like Evolution, Giant, Moon Priestess, Witcher, Tribute or even Elementalist, which is specifically targeting Titan cards.

If we put restrictions on one of these 3 cards then I think this will initiate the restriction of the aforementioned cards as well. And let's not forget there are still a lot of other cards (and keywords, like Burning or Holy) that aim on discarding. If we start restricting one thing, then soon we'll find restrictions on everything it's related to. And then we'll have to come up with restrictions on the cards they used to target, because they'll grow way too powerful.

For example: Nature used to be quite balanced when there was a chance you would get that crappy card Earthquake in hand. If the opponent kept a tower above 15, then he was quite saved. However when Earthquake was twitched into becoming a very good rare, Nature started becoming way too overpowered, as any card you summoned was going to be a successful hit on the opponent. So we came up with the idea to underpower Nature, and now Nature is wayyyyyyyyyy too underpowered. And since it's usually combined with Beast, another set of very underpowered cards (although, it's not a bad keyword), Nature now doesn't stand a chance against anything.

So my point is, if we are going to balance something here, at least let's not balance it based only on our point of view and on what kind of decks we have or on what kind of decks our opponents have. (im not trying to insult anyone, or point this at anyone, i just can't think of another way to put this, so sorry in advance if anyone feels offended, but it's not my intention to do so). I just observe, that whenever someone points out a potential weakness on something, we "fix" it too much and then we ruin the whole concept. Case in point: Nature, Prosperity, Aqua keyword, Prince of Thieves (it was way too cheap and now it's way too expensive for what it does).

Anyway, sorry for the long rant. Back on the subject: I think Cleansing is good as it is now. Perhaps we can make Wind, a Quick card again in order to tone down Elemental Storm and perhaps we can apply a few restrictions on Wildfire Gem, as it is clearly used only in Burning decks, i.e. it only affects the opponent negatively and it does so at a great length for a common card.

Isn't the point of balancing to take the strong stuff, make it weaker, and do the opposite to the weak stuff? Such is this conversation. While I agree that Beasts and Nature are too underpowered now, both were at one point too strong. The key is finding that middle ground, which is incredibly difficult given other balances and concepts that are created. This is further complicated by what I consider "fundamental" game changing concepts such as "No more common quicks." Regardless, nobody will agree on every card issue, but suggestions like polls would be beneficial provided we get an adequate sampling of all players (both "experienced" and new).