MArcomage

Phoenix:

Combined with the Feather summon and flare attack, this card is just a beast. Flare attack puts at least 8 burning cards into play. Even if your opponent discards one, phoenix still attacks for 70, adds some gems, and comes back into hand. All for 31g/10r. I'd say that's damn good value. Oh, and it discards opp's cards when it attacks.

Phoenix is one strong bitch, but I dunno what could be done to nerf it without taking away the spirit of the card. Maybe adding a "stock -5"? It's expensive to play it two rounds in a row (even with rebirth sometimes).

How about playing Tribute to get rid of the Burning cards that fuel Phoenix? Tribute is a zero cost common, and one of my favourites, since the last update it cannot discard your own rares ;)

That assumes that phoenix didn't discard your tribute, and it also can't discard Phoenix. Since Phoenix give you back almost all of the resources to play it again, tribute won't matter much, since whatever you discard will be replaced again by flare attack.

On top of that, flare attack doesn't discard other burning cards, so a burning deck loses little or no utility from playing flare attack. You're concerned with randomly discarding an uncommon or a rare with a common card, but flare attack is so much more powerful, yet Banish is the ability that gets the nerf. This makes no sense.

The Tribute should be used before the Phoenix can be played (since the Phoenix was summoned by Phoenix feather you have time to react), so you would reduce the number of Burning cards, but there are other possibilities such as direct discard cards (Intrigue, Mediator, Moon priestess...).

"tribute should be used before Phoenix can be played"
It doesn't matter, Phoenix can replace the cards tribute discards anyway.

Either you haven't thought through the logistics of the way the card operates in the game, or your priority is making a really powerful card, not a really balanced card.

"It doesn't matter, Phoenix can replace the cards tribute discards anyway."

It does. The Rebirth keyword effect precedes the Flare attack. So the rebirth effect is dependant on number of burning cards in game BEFORE the Flare attack. And this number may be reduced by Tribute.

I know it's not written anywhere, but it's kind of logical that it works this way. Otherwise the Flare attack would always trigger the Rebirth.

No, I understand the way the card work, but my point is: you can't play tribute after your opponent plays phoenix the first time if tribute will be discarded by the flare attack.

I uderstand that and I'm talking about different situation. I was originally reacting to the "Phoenix feater" post. I'm just saying that in situation when opponent summons Phoenix via the Phoenix feater you can use Tribute to keep number of burning cards in game low. So the situation is before the Phoenix was played the first time.

I'm not saying that, it's a perfect defense, but it can help. What would you expect from a zero cost common? If you want direct discard, play some uncommons that can do that.

Well, tribute is certainly an imperfect solution. In the situation above (feather, flare, phoenix), there are basically two chances to play tribute. 1) Before the feather is played hoping to get rid of the feather, flare or other burning card.
2) After the flare (assuming it wasn't discarded) hoping to get rid of as many burning cards from your and opponent's hand as possible.

There's alot of luck involved, and it certainly is no guarantee that you'll make out better using the tribute than if you just hadn't used it. Perhaps a "hard counter" is needed for the flare attack. Maybe a zero cost burning common that discards all burning cards from your hand and is quick? Or a zero cost common that discards all zero-cost cards from yours and opponent's hand?

Also, I'd add that tribute basically only has a 3/8 chance of discarding feather, whereas Phoenix has a 1/2 chance of discarded your tribute.

Or, we realize that in the time it takes for a Burning-deck to get phoenix feather, wildfire gem, and Phoenix in hand, played, and the resources for it, the opponents deck could:

-Lower your Magic/gems
-Lower your overall stock
-Lower your tower so much, with good enough defense, that he'd kill you with searing fire
-Discard Phoenix
-Win
-Win with one of the cards NOT discarded by Flare Attack.

I've been toying with a Mage/Burning deck lately, and I can definitely say that while the feather makes it easier to draw the card, playing Phoenix is still not easy. The feather allows you to draw it in a situation when you won't want to use it (If you don't have three Burning cards, it doesn't have its full effect).

Discussing how to stop Phoenix -after- it was played is futile. All of the discussed options to prevent its play are very effective. I've had more than a few matches where I drew Phoenix and was shut out from ever playing it. If you're looking for a way to defend against it while already experiencing the aftermath of Rebirth, you need to rethink your strategy. (Either that, or play all of your new Searing fire cards to reduce your opponent's stock while decreasing the number of Burning cards in play, of course.)

Feather works best when not in a deck heavy on burn cards.
A deck with a couple common burning cards makes it a much more powerful card.